Let me start by saying that I appreciate that everyone cares so much. But let's not get dragged away in the discussion, the discussion seems to be going nowhere.
Going to say this now: The Jedi are exactly where they should be at this point. While it is true that in some other games force users seem less overpowered, this is not the case in most of them. In games such as Battlefront II Jedi are given a lot of health, a timer, and a lot of damage. They are, in ratio, probably just as strong as Bear Force II Jedi. If not stronger.
Jedi Balance Wall of Text
#1 The Skill Factor
I have played most of the Battlefront games and I have seen Jedi clear entire hallways and rooms without a scratch, you sprint forward mashing the attack buttons and power buttons just to watch entire groups of enemies fall before you, not a lot of skill is required. This means the class is easier to use and will be very strong very fast. Jedi in Bear Force II have lower health than a basic trooper. If you were to walk/jump forward mashing attacks and powers you will die. A single good trooper can kill a Jedi in Bear Force II by either using explosives, out skill with melee or something I see more often, shoot them while they jump. Not to mention they can easily die if they are fighting multiple troops at once that can use grenade launchers, shields, swords or other variables. All in all it's safe to say that Jedi in Bear Force II require a lot of skill for them to be effective.
#2 Balance
If you were to ask me what class I think is the strongest in Bear Force II, I'd answer you the normal trooper. Why? Because they have the most viability, they have an equipment list suited for almost every situation. Besides that, there are more troopers on the battlefield than any other class, most of the times even more than all the other classes played combined. A well coordinated group of troops can easily defeat any enemy in an event especially because the effect of 1 trooper dying is a lot less than other classes. Not to mention that a single, skilled troop can also do massive damage.
Some parts of your argument are very true, Jedi have, individually, more potential impact than any other class in the mod. But in terms of ratio, they don't. Pit 3 Jedi currently in the mod against a team of say 12 troopers that have a normal event set up but without jets, padawans or normal Jedi. I can from personal experience already tell you that they will convincingly lose almost every round. How? Because the 172nd has had that training, I have attended it and played against those 12 troopers. In the end, me, Peller and Megu had individually many, many more kills than anyone on the enemy team. Yet we lost almost every round because the overall impact of troopers is much higher.
#3 Your argument
Applying your suggestions will make multiple things happen:
- More Jedi means more individual potential to destroy teams, if your teams Jedi split up and get picked off 1 by 1 by the enemy Jedi because they stuck together you will get the scenario of 1 team winning because the other teams Jedi are dead even more.
- Increasing melee speed for troopers will effectively make the Jedi useless. The only real way for a Jedi to kill enemies is by slashing them, if individual fights with troopers become even harder, the Jedi might as well be used as a scouting troop.
- Nerfing the Jedi's ability to push by nerfing the accuracy of Force counter is like sending in a tank without ammo that also has gas leaking in the back. It can't really kill anything, 1 well placed explosive will kill it or if you get lucky you can just shoot the leaking gas, making the entire thing explode with just a few shots.
Coming back on the solo pushing without consequences. They can't, I'll name a few scenarios:
- It's a hallway map, not a lot of room for your mobility powers, you get around a corner to be killed by a detpack, a rocket, a melee weapon from either a troop or Jedi. Making you have to stay with your team, absorbing bullets and cleaning up the remaining enemies once you finally get to push.
- It's a very open map, not a lot of unexpected corners so you have free roam to push solo. If you want to push solo it means you are force jumping to get somewhere faster, draining up force. It's open so enemy troops, jets and Jedi can see you from very far away. Troops can freely shoot at you because the chance they will get hit by counter from a distance is very small if they also go back into cover after shooting, draining up even more force. The enemy Jedi however is not pushing solo, he jumps forward every once in a while but stays within range of friendlies that can help him. Making you fall back after not doing what you set out to do with maybe some lost health and having to wait until your force is back. Allowing the enemy Jedi to freely kill your team mates.
- It's neither very open or closed, so you decide to quickly push a flank to scare away the entire enemy team pushing that flank. Most of the enemy team will know the map, and know that you are either on your own or with jets, they're not scared. You don't have any support so they can easily overwhelm you. You will die taking maybe some troops with you but your team will have lost their Jedi and have no flank advantage. Or it will make you retreat, you'll live, but you will have only lost force points.
Final Conclusion
While I very much appreciate your concern for the mod's population and balance I think you are very wrong in this argument. A lot of your arguments contradict what you want to accomplish.
The Jedi class in Bear Force II may seem OP because of it's potential individual impact and the amount of kills you can get. But it has been tested and proven many times over that the impact ratio from a Jedi doesn't differ much from that of another class in Bear Force II.
In the end, every troop in Bear Force II is as good as the player playing them. The mod and all it's included classes (even Jedi) are heavily skill based.
I hope you will thoroughly read this reply before trying to counter the arguments that I named. As well as not picking certain arguments and take them out of context, fully focussing on that specific argument you didn't agree with. Finally I'd like to thank you for reading and understanding that the Jedi will not be nerfed any time soon.
Best regards,
BNS Mark
Lead Developer of Bear Force II
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