You are Here:

Poll

What you think about this topic?

Jedi is balanced
Jedi is unbalanced
Jedi is unbalanced

Users currently browsing this topic:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Author (Read 608 times)

Jedi is unbalanced
« on: July 21, 2018, 09:10:34 PM »
 

Akreal

  • Moderator
  • *
  • 36
    Posts
  • #1 Erdogan Fan
    • View Profile
I have been saying this for a long time but finally Its obvious in events. If Team 1's Jedi is a good player and kills Team 2's Jedi, Team 1 basically wins the round because Team 1 Jedi can freely terrorize Team 2. I think this can be fixed in a couple of ways. First is we can increase Jedi limit in events so that way both teams have 2-3 Jedi so even If Team 1 Jedi kills Team 2 Jedi there will be still other Jedi or more. The second one is giving troopers more chance to fight against Jedi like increasing their melee speed same to Jedi(and remove bending by changing animation as well). The third one is decreasing the accuracy of force counter and It actually uses more force. That way Jedi can't just push a position himself alone by only pressing right click and actually require his teammates help him with shields and fire support. I would like to see other people's opinion as well, If you have anything against these or you want to add something please let me know.
 

Re: Jedi is unbalanced
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2018, 09:24:56 PM »
 

Ianitori

  • Moderator
  • *
  • 79
    Posts
  • That guy nobody likes
    • View Profile
You should work on your presentation btw :P

1: Many people are opposed having more jedi as shown by how some people are unhappy about the fact that padawans are allowed as specialists in 13th events.  I imagine alot of people wouldn't come to events if they had to deal with more than just one. Another reason morejedi would be worse because certain clans (172nd for example) have more dedicated jedi players than others.

2: Troopers have plenty of chance to fight against jedi. Not only do they have a numerical advantage but in my experience the swords as they are give me no trouble in fighting against jedi nor do i easily kill some troopers with swords as i hoped i would when playing jedi. Troopers also have guns (Which can kill a jedi in 3 shots sometimes) along with explosives and shields.

3:Jedi force counter in my opinion is perfect as it is. It's never 100% whether it will hit the shooter but its obvious that in shows and the movies jedi deliberately deflect bullets back at the enemy. Making it more costly i also disagree with because jedi have a hard time pushing on their own as it is at the moment and making their force drain faster would just make them more useless. in my opinion i think the reason why some jedi are able to push easily is because so few people know how to properly deal with an enemy jedi as a squad, meaning that its easy for the jedi to pick them off one by one as they split up.

While it is annoying when one jedi is better than the other i don't think that any of these would help and neither do i believe that jedi can effect the whole round just by that one duel. Granted that in later game jedi are very useful because the teams are often very spread out but its still very easy for anyone to get a lucky shot on the jedi.
 

Re: Jedi is unbalanced
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2018, 09:43:45 PM »
 

Akreal

  • Moderator
  • *
  • 36
    Posts
  • #1 Erdogan Fan
    • View Profile
1. When I said there should be more than 1 Jedi, I meant like old times where every clan had their Jedi.

2. Troopers don't have much chance. Numerical advantage doesn't mean anything when enemy Jedi have troopers backing him and only a couple of people carry a sword.

3. Jedi can just push alone anywhere with that accuracy in his force counter. It always happens in events. They just jump around and flank you while you can't do anything about it.

It should be hard to notice these when you play so much Jedi but I mainly play trooper(and most people can agree I am more than decent) and these are very annoying for troopers. It should be a very fun experience for Jedi tho. If Jedi doesn't get balanced most pubs will stop attending events probably. That's what currently I am thinking because Its boring to get killed by Jedi and wait 5-10 minutes for next round.

Btw I would like to point out none of Star Wars games I played had this kinda strong Jedi. Moviebattles 2, Original Battlefront 2 and New Battlefront 2 all of these games giving fun experience for troopers while Jedi is fun but not OP as well. I would like devs to consider this and stop thinking so much about immersion since we are not playing a simulation.
 

Re: Jedi is unbalanced
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2018, 10:00:23 PM »
 

Ianitori

  • Moderator
  • *
  • 79
    Posts
  • That guy nobody likes
    • View Profile
1: Some clans have more members than others so if it was 2v1 it would be unbalanced meaning that the bigger clan would take 2 jedi. Thus leading to my point where some clans have more jedi players.

2:Troopers have plenty of chance whether or not there is a jedi backing them up too. The process goes like this:
>Republic trooper shoots at droid
>Sith jumps on trooper
>Other republic trooper shoots sith in the back
>Huzzah

3: Jedi can push alone to a certain point. Their force is limited. Its easy to start surrounding them if they are alone. And as many amateurs force jump alot to try and get out of this its easy to guess how much force they have. It's also very easy to spot common mistakes they make such as trying to jump but not having any force which reveals to the enemy he cant force jump.

4: I play jedi alot indeed, but as i learned to play the mod as trooper first and i still often play trooper if others have the jedi and i would say that its rather easy to note these things. Jedi aren't balanced because there is only 1 per team meaning that they are rare. Would you expect an infantryman to beat a tank on their own in a battlefield game? Because i wouldn't... so why expect a trooper to beat a jedi in a star wars game?

5: Other games are irrelevant because it's likely that its alot different to the mechanics of warband. Jedi is not OP, if it was then i would be able to single handedly kill the entire 172nd on my own, as shown in yesterdays NA event, that's not possible. If devs were thinking about immersion then the jedi would never run out of force, troopers would not have swords and neither would they be able to kill a jedi at point blank range the instant they stop blocking. The point of the devs considering immersion is to find an easy compromise in which it makes sense whilst also being fun.

17: Just wanted to point out i could count past 5 ;)
« Last Edit: July 21, 2018, 10:03:18 PM by Ianitori »
 

Re: Jedi is unbalanced
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2018, 10:04:57 PM »
 

MatiasHogden

  • Moderator
  • *
  • 39
    Posts
  • Political commissar of the 172nd
    • View Profile
Just like the simulations..

As for a serious response, i mostly agree, but i believe jedi work as a motivator to improve ones melee skill. Troopers find out they cant fight them, so they try to improve. Jedi arent impossible to kill, and if handled properly 3 players can easily kill a jedi that has pushed too far, too fast. That said, the same applies for troopers, only where jedi are protected from ranged fire, the troopers usually arent.

So though i partly agree with you, i dont believe jedi should be nerfed in the manner you said, nor do i think there should be more jedi, because as Ian said, lots of people do not like several jedi  opposing them. I have, and im sure you have too, had people ragequit mid event because there were simply too many force users, and that was just padawans. Imagine the same with jedi. Eventually you'd have one teams jedi go one direction, with the other teams jedi going opposite them. Every trooper on each side dies to jedi, and it ends with a jedi fight.

So no suggestions for improvement from me, as i dont really have any, but while i do recognize the problem, there are just too many people that either a) Don't like there being more jedi on the field or b) People not liking jedi being nerfed because 'it was pretty much like this in the movies'.

Anyways, in my opinion, a bad jedi can get killed by troopers easily, a good jedi can kill troopers easily. Vica versa for troopers. In the end, skill is the determining factor. Aswell as a bit of luck ;)
 

Re: Jedi is unbalanced
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2018, 10:07:42 PM »
 

Ianitori

  • Moderator
  • *
  • 79
    Posts
  • That guy nobody likes
    • View Profile
Quote
there are just too many people that either a) Don't like there being more jedi on the field or b) People not liking jedi being nerfed because 'it was pretty much like this in the movies'.

Not to mention if jedi were as easy to kill as troopers then there would be no point in limiting them. Also it ruins the feeling of accomplishment when you kill them
 

Re: Jedi is unbalanced
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2018, 10:19:17 PM »
 

Ianitori

  • Moderator
  • *
  • 79
    Posts
  • That guy nobody likes
    • View Profile
Also akreal voting on that poll "Jedi is unbalanced" is strengthening the point that they are made to be stronger than the normal trooper.
 

Re: Jedi is unbalanced
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2018, 10:20:16 PM »
 

Akreal

  • Moderator
  • *
  • 36
    Posts
  • #1 Erdogan Fan
    • View Profile
Well, a team with good Jedi wins most rounds. I want troopers to have more impact in rounds rather than 2 guys.
 

Re: Jedi is unbalanced
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2018, 10:21:59 PM »
 

Ianitori

  • Moderator
  • *
  • 79
    Posts
  • That guy nobody likes
    • View Profile
I would say that certain moments in bearforce where players can get massive kill streaks or have extreme moments of skill shows that troopers can have an impact on the game.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2018, 10:26:24 PM by Ianitori »
 

Re: Jedi is unbalanced
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2018, 10:25:32 PM »
 

MatiasHogden

  • Moderator
  • *
  • 39
    Posts
  • Political commissar of the 172nd
    • View Profile
It's not like peller (or any other jedi for that matter) does good every round. There are plenty of rounds where jedi die without a single kill, and that team still winning. I believe we had 2-3 of those only today. Troopers already do have a massive impact on rounds. Your own 10 kills in a single map side yesterday should be testament to that. If you 'want' troopers to be more impactful, then get more impactful troopers. It's not like there is a shortage, going on how the leaderboards look most rounds.
 

Re: Jedi is unbalanced
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2018, 10:28:37 PM »
 

Echo

  • Newbie
  • *
  • 1
    Posts
    • View Profile
While Jedi in a 1v1 will pretty much always beat a trooper, there is only one jedi and a group of troopers can EASILY kill a jedi. Teamwork (sometimes sacrifice ;p) can kill any jedi no matter the skill, or at the very least make him back off. Surrounding the jedi, having one melee while the rest shoot, etc. With 170 ping in EU I was still able to counter jedi with my teammates, and majority of the time even kill them. This tended to be with only one other trooper as I usually was playing jet at that time, so yes we had more advantage than a normal trooper, but there was also only two of us.

Yes a better jedi killing a worse jedi does tip the balance, but that isnt the fault of the class. There is no reason to worsen a class to help clans that dont have as good a jedi just for balance, as usually these clans tend to be better at killing a jedi with just troopers anyways.
 

Re: Jedi is unbalanced
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2018, 10:34:31 PM »
 

Ibrahana

  • BNS Member
  • *
  • 9
    Posts
  • *Insert joke about cancer*
    • View Profile
I disagree completely, right now, jedi are pretty much at their weakest point (probably some versions that are an exception), every class has a melee weapon that can block and do decent damage, you have det packs, grenades and worst of all grenade launchers.
 

Re: Jedi is unbalanced
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2018, 10:50:44 PM »
 

Akreal

  • Moderator
  • *
  • 36
    Posts
  • #1 Erdogan Fan
    • View Profile
Your own 10 kills in a single map side yesterday should be testament to that.

There was no Jedi on yesterdays event.
 

Re: Jedi is unbalanced
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2018, 11:15:35 PM »
 

Akreal

  • Moderator
  • *
  • 36
    Posts
  • #1 Erdogan Fan
    • View Profile
I know If you stick with your team and work together you can kill a Jedi. I am saying this shouldn't be this case. Jedi shouldn't be able to just press right click and push forward without any consequences. It has no weak point. It has mobility, It has a defence against bullets and they are best in melee. They should work with their team more than they go on a killing spree and the only way to make this happen is limiting Jedi's ability to kill troopers. If you nerf their force counter or a cooldown on force jump they can't push alone.

 

Re: Jedi is unbalanced
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2018, 11:53:25 PM »
 

Chainsor

  • BNS Member
  • *
  • 21
    Posts
  • 501st_Sgt_Chainsor - BNS Chainsor
    • View Profile
I can confirm  ::)