Author Topic: Lets talk Snipers  (Read 4035 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Vengeful

  • Staff
  • Vigilante
  • ***
  • Posts: 213
  • 501st_SSgt_Vengeful
    • View Profile
Lets talk Snipers
« on: January 25, 2016, 09:37:33 am »
First of all I am not going to talk about the Balance of firearms an aweful lot in this one as Danilkom has said everything that has to be said.

Quote
First, I have to say that I absolutely LOVE the sniper rifle in practically any game. And seeing how under-powered it is in 0.4 is saddening.
To make it shorter, the snipers are practically a downgrade from the CIS pistols. Pistols that are held on the shoulder, while crouched has the same accuracy as a sniper while standing and aiming down the sight.
At least, that's how I see it according to the crosshair gap (which is nonexistent now).
Other than that, the fire rate is ridiculously high: aiming in ADS mode (aim down sight) still keeps an INSANELY high fire rate. Hell, it is even higher than a DC-15 carbine in hip-fire from 0.34.
This causes a ridiculous issue with the fire rate. First, people can shoot as much as they want, but being able to suppress enemies with no recoil and deadly accuracy is overkill.
I want to make it clear that I love the fact that we can finally shoot perfectly and not having to count on luck, or learn how to read the spread patterns with an oddly unsuited crosshair, but allowing rifles to do this, causes sniper rifles to be virtually useless. Who would want to make a 5 ammo consuming shot instead of betting on 5 separate shots, which could also do a headshot, generally resulting in instant death?

So, what I'd like to see is a huge nerf in the fire-rate of assault rifles/separatists' B1's pistol (to the state of the 0.34, as an example.) and possibly a buff for the sniper rifle, or maybe a reduction in the ammo cost per shot (3 sounds good in my opinion).

My suggestion for balance changes on the sniper would be either a higher ammo count (Mayby 3 ammo used per shot) or have the shot travel faster than other rifles.
One of those two things and the Snipers are good to go in my opinion.

But the really big thing I want to talk about is the usage of Snipers in Events. In no way I am trying to offend or point fingers on anyone here, it is just my opinion about snipers in this game.

The Sniper rifle has 100% Accuracy and a high damage output in trade for high ammo usage (5 per shot, with 3 Power Packs you have 360 ammunition. For a Sniper thats 72 Shots). This makes it one of the most challenging guns to use, since in my experience it is the only gun in the game you can actually go out of ammo in Battle. After using the whole ammo you have to scavenge Power Packs from dead People.


Lets look at the different Ranges of engagement with a Sniper Rifle:

Long Range:
The Sniper rifle has 100% Accuracy, that should be good at long range right? Wrong. The Sniper rifle is a decent gun for long range combat but not the best. The accuracy may be high, but the time your shot needs to travel the whole distance enables the enemy to move out of the way before the shot even hits. This results in such a huge waste of ammo and mayby 1 or 2 kills before the ammo is fully used up.

Middle Range:
This is where it gets interesting. The enemy only has 1 or 2 seconds to evade your shot and you can actually aim without the crosshair blocking the view. This is the most effective Range for the Sniper to be in. BUT BE AWARE, that this is also the most effective range for Rifles, so don't get caught out in the open. You need to flank the enemy or have really good cover.

Close Range:
In close Range Combat (40 Meter) The Sniper gun's accuracy actually hinders the player to hit. If the enemy player is aware of you and is not pinned down by your Teammates you are probably going to die.

So what does that tell us about the Usage of the Sniper in an Event. They are most usefull on middle range, but also are really vulnurable to getting overrun or flanked.
They should be used as a Supporting force to make an even or winning side win/win harder. On a losing side of the Battle they are going to get overwhelmed by advancing troops, since moving troops are almost impossible to hit with the sniper rifle.

In a perfect world, Snipers would be able to flank an enemy Squad already involved in a Firefight. Through 100% Accuracy, your shots are going to hit stationary targets. When are Squads going to be stationary?
  • When in Cover
  • When trying to shoot accurately


Lets take yesterdays Event for example.
I am going to attach a few Pictures (Paint skills). Lines are Squads, Circles are Snipers and black arrows are shots.

In the first picture you can see Valion sent forward into the center together with Lance. We had a firefight with the enemy middle force sitting in a bunker. It was a good fight for us until their left side (bottom of picture) pushed to a bunker of their own and had clear shooting at us, since our only cover was trees.

The second picture shows how I would approach a battle of this kind. Holding back Valion waiting for a side to lose/win and try to use that to an advantage. After seeing, that their right side (top of the picture) was being pushed back. Send Valion as backup to flank enemy center forces. Since they are in a firefight with our center forces and they are trying to take cover from center/shooting at center. Easy stationary targets.

Thanks for reading and make sure to comment about thoughts or critic.


TL;DR: Snipers are good backup forces to flank/fight enemy forces at middle range, that are already engaged in a firefight with somebody else.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2016, 10:23:58 am by Vengeful »

Offline Sellsword

  • Vigilante
  • *****
  • Posts: 458
    • View Profile
Re: Lets talk Snipers
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2016, 01:26:27 pm »
In my opinion, the only negative is too small zoom for such a range.

Offline Euronymous

  • Junior
  • *
  • Posts: 56
  • The man with the Whisky Whiskers
    • View Profile
Re: Lets talk Snipers
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2016, 02:00:31 pm »
I tried the sniper the other day, and preformed awfully. I am ussually **** at shooting, so I thought it was just me.... Ill agree With sellsword on the zoom, but I think that's hardcoded or something, so you can't acctually get a better zoom.

Edit: Higher shot travel speed for snipers would be good.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2016, 02:02:30 pm by Euronymous »
"Vi kjrer alle sammen n, Copacabana, Brasiliana, ol ol
Vi drikker alle sammen n, Pia Colada, brutalt med vodka, ol ol"

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The force shall free me.

"You have to realistic about these things" - Joe Abercrombie

Offline Vengeful

  • Staff
  • Vigilante
  • ***
  • Posts: 213
  • 501st_SSgt_Vengeful
    • View Profile
Re: Lets talk Snipers
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2016, 02:30:31 pm »
In my opinion, the only negative is too small zoom for such a range.

I agree, but that would be more of a QoL Change, unless your eyesight is bad :D

Offline Aijnin

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 24
    • View Profile
Re: Lets talk Snipers
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2016, 12:14:57 am »
The sniper is actually extremely effective at shooting at still targets shooting at other things, and your slightly better accuracy means you can stay behind and still effectively kill things. One headshot is usually enough.

Increase the missile speed and decrease the crosshair (+) thickness and it'll be all good.

Offline BNS Marko

  • Owner
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 558
  • That Balkan guy.
    • View Profile
    • Bad Name Studios
Re: Lets talk Snipers
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2016, 10:07:59 am »
Missile speed has already been increased for snipers only(290 compared to 200 for all other blasters), however we might raise the missile speed for all blasters in the future.

Offline Vengeful

  • Staff
  • Vigilante
  • ***
  • Posts: 213
  • 501st_SSgt_Vengeful
    • View Profile
Re: Lets talk Snipers
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2016, 11:36:28 am »
Thanks for the answer Marko, I didn't realize the missile speed is higher. Wouldn't raising the missile speed of all blasters really change core gameplay? Like in a non healthy way?

Offline Axwen

  • Staff Member
  • Junior
  • ***
  • Posts: 204
  • Community Manager
    • View Profile
Re: Lets talk Snipers
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2016, 01:10:55 pm »
I believe that increasing the blaster speed could perhaps jeopardize the skill required to operate a blaster accurately and effectively. The sniper and Medic are personally my favorites and I can personally test to the accuracy and effectiveness of the sniper rifle when used effectively.
"You know impossible is what Rogue Squadron does best" - Corran Horn

Offline Sellsword

  • Vigilante
  • *****
  • Posts: 458
    • View Profile
Re: Lets talk Snipers
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2016, 03:52:55 pm »
Medic is useless without the system of signals.

Offline Vengeful

  • Staff
  • Vigilante
  • ***
  • Posts: 213
  • 501st_SSgt_Vengeful
    • View Profile
Re: Lets talk Snipers
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2016, 04:29:40 pm »
Medic is useless without the system of signals.

Signals? I don't understand :D

The sniper and Medic are personally my favorites and I can personally test to the accuracy and effectiveness of the sniper rifle when used effectively.

What do you mean by personally testing to the effectiveness? Sorry english is not my native language.

Offline Sellsword

  • Vigilante
  • *****
  • Posts: 458
    • View Profile
Re: Lets talk Snipers
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2016, 04:47:56 pm »
1) I do not see a medic.
2) Medic do not know exactly who needs help.

Offline Axwen

  • Staff Member
  • Junior
  • ***
  • Posts: 204
  • Community Manager
    • View Profile
Re: Lets talk Snipers
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2016, 11:50:02 pm »
Medic is useless without the system of signals.

Signals? I don't understand :D

The sniper and Medic are personally my favorites and I can personally test to the accuracy and effectiveness of the sniper rifle when used effectively.

What do you mean by personally testing to the effectiveness? Sorry english is not my native language.

Expression so to speak. Basically meaning: I can personally claim from my own experiences that the Sniper Rifle is accurate and effective based upon your usage of it.

1) I do not see a medic.
2) Medic do not know exactly who needs help.

I agree with 1, Medics should have some form of identification on them that signifies that they're Medics.

2 There should be a system to tell Health of nearby allies, like a check key where when pressed will gather the hp in a message displayed in chat.

"You know impossible is what Rogue Squadron does best" - Corran Horn

Offline Baskakov_Dima

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 40
    • View Profile
Re: Lets talk Snipers
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2016, 08:33:31 pm »
How I see Sniper compared to other guns, adding something to what was already said. Actually, this all reminds me of snipers in airsoft -- they are totally useless compared to machine gunners.

1) Zoom is not enough for long range. You can't really control your shots with current zoom. You don't even see if your target is holding a shield.
2) Aiming reticle and dot cover the target at long ranges, so you can't see it.
3) Target has a lot of time to dodge the bullet, cover etc. As already mentioned by Vengeful, bullets fly damn slow. We need the speed to be increased even more
4) Even if you score a shot on a target that doesn't know about you, it is not going to die, not even going to lose a lot of health unless it's a headshot, so you are useless.
5) If the map has fog, you can't kill anyone at this range as you don't even see them. On boarding maps there is simply no long range, but that's OK.

Other guns can just shoot and hope for the best at long range playing as good as sniper rifle and are damn better at any other range. If several rifleman focus on a player, he is killed from any range, if several snipers do, he has some chances to survive.

So, my points are:

1) Probably decrease ammo drain, so snipers get more shots.
2) Make snipers able to penetrate shields.
3) Increase the bullet speed even more, so it will get possible to snipe.
4) Delete that stupid red dot and increase the zoom, so it's usable at long ranges.
5) Increase damage, so you kill Jedi with just one shot in the body.

Offline Vengeful

  • Staff
  • Vigilante
  • ***
  • Posts: 213
  • 501st_SSgt_Vengeful
    • View Profile
Re: Lets talk Snipers
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2016, 08:55:00 pm »
1) Zoom is not enough for long range. You can't really control your shots with current zoom. You don't even see if your target is holding a shield.
2) Aiming reticle and dot cover the target at long ranges, so you can't see it.
3) Target has a lot of time to dodge the bullet, cover etc. As already mentioned by Vengeful, bullets fly damn slow. We need the speed to be increased even more
4) Even if you score a shot on a target that doesn't know about you, it is not going to die, not even going to lose a lot of health unless it's a headshot, so you are useless.
5) If the map has fog, you can't kill anyone at this range as you don't even see them. On boarding maps there is simply no long range, but that's OK.

Nah its not that bad.

1. Zoom could be made higher but not mandatory
2. Aiming reticle needs to be made smaller and need to be white with black border so its not invisible on snow.
3. Speed needs to be higher IF the sniper is intended to be useful at high ranges. If not it is good as it is right now.
4. Body shots do half the damage of a players health, thats okay and doesnt need to be changed.
5.I have no trouble killing things on foggy maps. Just today we played 30 vs 30 on a foggy map and Me and Carlos went 19/2 and 19/3 on it only using snipers.

Everything is my opinion, don't take it hard or anything :D

Offline Baskakov_Dima

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 40
    • View Profile
Re: Lets talk Snipers
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2016, 06:57:06 pm »
1. Yes, not mandatory, but I dislike having to be in like 10 cm from my screen to pixelhunt some strangers at long distances, not even seeing what am I shooting at.
2. I think, it has to be a circl with a 1- or 4-pixel dot at the center. Would work well for most guns. For sniper rifle could just be a dot probably.
3. I bet sniper IS intended to be good at long ranges.
4. Takes 2-3 shots to kill someone. Well, I can do it, but I can only catch unaware people that don't know that I am shooting at them, while most guns allow fighting with those who know about you being there.
5. I only played few foggy maps as a sniper, they were like people standing near their spawns firing lasers at other spawn with occasional jet troopers or jedi moving around.