Bad Name Studios

Bear Force II => General Discussion & Suggestions => Topic started by: Velorn on February 07, 2016, 09:11:18 pm

Title: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Velorn on February 07, 2016, 09:11:18 pm
i just went on a server with 40+ ppl and the enemy team got our butts rapped because they had more force users soo we got forced to play jedi.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Ares on February 07, 2016, 09:13:37 pm
****ing hell.

Let's say you're on native on a public server. You're losing because their cavalry is better than the ones in your team. Will you ****ing scream to Talesworld that they'd nerf cav ? No. Same here.

Jedi on this mod are op, yes. Maybe they were even less op in v0.36. But so what, not Dev fault your team can't get any decent jedi to carry your team.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Velorn on February 07, 2016, 09:16:56 pm
admit it the team with most force users wins and yes Cavalry is **** in native but there are dedicated ways to defeat them like pikes and spears however in bear force there is no way for the trooper to win unless the jedi is a complete noob he cant beat him in melee nor on range nor is he faster or has any advantage over the jedi like speed or whatever
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Velorn on February 07, 2016, 09:30:20 pm
Quote
Jedi on this mod are op, yes. Maybe they were even less op in v0.36. But so what, not Dev fault your team can't get any decent jedi to carry your team.

you cant be serious about this... a mp game is supposed to be fun to ALL players regardles wich class they picked
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 07, 2016, 10:15:01 pm
When I infantryman, I'm more afraid of infantry than two-headed.  :) Nobody says that the Jedi unbeatable. It just takes more time, effort and luck than necessary, regardless of the skill of the Jedi. Why the class for beginners would be the best?
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Gus on February 07, 2016, 11:03:27 pm
What server did you play on, Velorn?

You believe it's better to make the Jedi/Sith classes less powerful rather than use the class limits?
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 07, 2016, 11:04:28 pm
I believe. Limit harm to both parties.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Gus on February 07, 2016, 11:06:59 pm
How would you go about "nerfing" them?
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Velorn on February 07, 2016, 11:26:58 pm
marko said he might have found a way to bring back stunlock in melee this and a slight nerf on the defence against blasters should be fine
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Aijnin on February 08, 2016, 02:25:07 am
Velorn, did playing Jedi actually help you win more?
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Aijnin on February 08, 2016, 02:31:50 am
admit it the team with most force users wins

Just today I was in a team of 75% sith and we were on a losing streak against a team of about 60% clones. And the top player on the Republic team was a clone, all the way through. I think skill has to do with some part of winning, not just the class.

Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Vengeful on February 08, 2016, 09:41:31 am
First of all I want to say I have not voted for any of those options since I don't think they are balanced, but also nerfing them is not the way to go.

I hope my experience in balancing from playing League of Legends for 4 years can help.

In League there are a certain class called melee carries, and they have been a horror to balance for Riot ever since they were released (Fiora, Master Yi, Tryndamere for example) They are people that are damage dealers and melees at the same time. Since they can not tank a lot of hits, they have a lot of mobility to help them get in and out of fights. They need to force single targets into a 1v1 for maximum effectiveness. The best tactic against them is to group up and focus them down (best with crowd controll)

In League the main weakness of Melee carries is their low health and range disadvantage.

In Bearforce 2 the weakness of Force users is... I can't think of any exploitable weakness.

You can probably see the similarity at this point. I would describe the Jedi as a melee carry. The problem in my eyes is that he is too good at everything. He is impossible to kill at range. He is hard to kill in melee (since that is his main point of fighting). The only way to overpower him is to have a lot more people and to shoot at him until his force power is depleted. Since the force power is only visible to the force user himself, this not only feels really pointless but also frustrating.

In my opinion all the Jedi needs is Counterplay. A weakness to exploit where good Force users can cover it with skill. The Force Users are not a beginner Class. They are an elite class played by people training them daily.

I really hope we can find a way to make the Force user gameplay enjoyable for both Force users themselves and Ranged players.

P.S. If anyone of you plays League, the Fiora rework is what im looking for here. Before the update she was a Champion not fun to play as/against. Since you either went 0/10 and were useless the whole game or 10/0 and destroyed everyone. Now its an awesome champ with counterplay and a high skill ceiling.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 08, 2016, 10:36:55 am
marko said he might have found a way to bring back stunlock in melee this and a slight nerf on the defence against blasters should be fine

Half-measures will not help. Their passive abilities should be minimal.

Vengeful
The problem is that he almost does not get tired. Even against 10 shooters. Moreover, the suppression of fire  is simply dangerous, if he has Counter. It's funny to hear about the exploit when developers are constantly eliminate their weaknesses. Perhaps by accident, because listening the lovers of easy game for the Jedi.

Oh, tell me, how many hours you have to train to run around with the block and automatically reflect all the shots? This is a very simple class for beginners.

Aijnin
It happens, but rarely.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Vengeful on February 08, 2016, 11:01:10 am
The problem is that he almost does not get tired. Even against 10 shooters.

I agree, a change I would actually welcome:

Change the Force Defense/Blocking of shots, so a Jedi can block a set amount of shots (like 10) and then has to "recharge" for a set amount of seconds before he can block again. That would get a Force User to really think about where to jump in, but also means he only has a lower downtime in between actions.

The ranged users would have counterplay (getting 3-5 ppl to shoot at the Force user) but the Force user doesn't feel completely useless after using all of his "block" power, since he only needs that set amount of seconds before he can try again (if hes not dead because he chose a wrong moment)

It would change the gameplay of a Force user to windows of oppurtunities. I would like to hear a force users opinion on this change.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 08, 2016, 11:08:13 am
Or just significantly increase the consumption of power so a Jedi could not attack head-on. By the way, I am against the fact that the easiest way to kill them is to use melee weapon. Still, the ordinary clone can not fence with the Sith. Perhaps we need a special Jedi killer.

Force users only want the limit.  :)
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: BNS Nuno on February 08, 2016, 11:23:51 am
As I dont want to write a big text here Ill keep this short.

Jedis/siths are the same as they were in 0.36 the only thing that changed was the stunlock. And if you want to kill a team of jedi/sith, just get a **** sword (no need to go jedi/sith) and spam them until they die or run away.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 08, 2016, 11:27:20 am
Great, let's all give up the blasters. Or even better - let's go back to the native, and will fence.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: BNS Nuno on February 08, 2016, 11:55:38 am
You know what I meant to say.

And its common sence to atleast bring a blaster sword and 2 ammo packs to fight a sith/jedi spam team.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Jepekula on February 08, 2016, 12:44:04 pm
The problem is that he almost does not get tired. Even against 10 shooters.

I agree, a change I would actually welcome:

Change the Force Defense/Blocking of shots, so a Jedi can block a set amount of shots (like 10) and then has to "recharge" for a set amount of seconds before he can block again. That would get a Force User to really think about where to jump in, but also means he only has a lower downtime in between actions.

The ranged users would have counterplay (getting 3-5 ppl to shoot at the Force user) but the Force user doesn't feel completely useless after using all of his "block" power, since he only needs that set amount of seconds before he can try again (if hes not dead because he chose a wrong moment)

It would change the gameplay of a Force user to windows of oppurtunities. I would like to hear a force users opinion on this change.
That actually sounds like a good idea.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Ares on February 08, 2016, 01:00:45 pm
So you're asking a nerf that would allow Jedi to counter 10 shots then have to hide for at least 5 seconds before counter shots again. With the new firing rate of blasters that would be insane for players who take Jedi but aren't good with it. And with the class limits, the team is doomed.

So 2 options: nerf again Jedi but remove class limit so if ppl aren't good with it players who are good can have a chance.
Or
Keep it the way it is actually.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 08, 2016, 01:04:05 pm
You know what I meant to say.

And its common sence to atleast bring a blaster sword and 2 ammo packs to fight a sith/jedi spam team.
Too many blades for firearms module. In addition, it is very funny when a Jedi is killed by simple droid, with a knife.

Ares
Well, we are talking about that. If the Jedi will not exceed the other classes, the limit is not required. Limit is annoying all players - those who play for the Jedi and those who like to play against them.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Ares on February 08, 2016, 01:08:07 pm
"Will not exceed"

It's a Jedi, I mean cmon how can it be balanced, do you think 1 or 2 clones actually had a chance against master Jedi ?

You simply can't nerf so much Jedi that it would be a challenge against each clone in his way. It can't be in SW universe.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 08, 2016, 01:10:00 pm
This is just a game. Or you can provide thousands of droids, like in the movie? 100 droids or 10 clones of the Jedi, at least. Always. And by the way, how do you know that this master, rather than yesterday's Padawan?

Or
#Invalid YouTube Link#

Players is not bots, they should not be the whipping boys for every noob, who grabbed too strong class.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Vengeful on February 08, 2016, 01:30:26 pm
So you're asking a nerf that would allow Jedi to counter 10 shots then have to hide for at least 5 seconds before counter shots again. With the new firing rate of blasters that would be insane for players who take Jedi but aren't good with it. And with the class limits, the team is doomed.


"Will not exceed"

It's a Jedi, I mean cmon how can it be balanced, do you think 1 or 2 clones actually had a chance against master Jedi ?

You simply can't nerf so much Jedi that it would be a challenge against each clone in his way. It can't be in SW universe.

What do you want... Force users that are balanced and are worth as much as 1 Clone? Then there would be no class limit needed.

But you yourself are saying you want Force users to be stronger than Clones/droids.

If you want them to be stronger, you have to accept a limit on its usage.

My change would aim for Force users to be worth around 3-5 clones/droids. I think that would make them balanced enough for a 20-25% limit on the Official
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Velorn on February 08, 2016, 01:31:34 pm
further our players are supposed to be padawans and average jedi... and average jedi are pretty easy to kill in star wars only the cartoons make them look overpowered
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 08, 2016, 01:39:25 pm
Another option - make something that the Jedi will be vulnerable. Now they simply can not be stopped. For example - flamethrowers, with a small radius of action.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 08, 2016, 01:44:52 pm
Is possible to try, extra weapons are still interesting. Flamethrower easily fry arrogant Jedi, but any clone  with rifle will shoot him down.

By the way, another advantage of the Jedi - they move very quickly by a huge local maps. The infantry is lagging behind, and bored. :)
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Ares on February 08, 2016, 01:48:05 pm
I don't want them stronger, they are already strong. I mean they can't be compared to clone/droid on a balance.

BUT I must admit that flamethrower could be a great idea to counter Jedi.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 08, 2016, 01:50:42 pm
They are not strong, they unfairly strong. Most of their capabilities does not require any skills from the player. If they will strong only in the hands of the master, I will not give any objections.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Vengeful on February 08, 2016, 01:54:36 pm
I don't want them stronger, they are already strong. I mean they can't be compared to clone/droid on a balance.

I am sorry, but they have to be compared to clones and droids, since they are playing in the same game.


The biggest point of concern in my opinion: EVENTS

How is it possible to balance a class that can be played on the official server with 20% limit, when in an event there's pretty much a 4% limit. (200 players and 8 force users)

The answer is pretty obvious. Make the force user very skill dependent, so force users in events (very good force users) are still viable and don't feel useless, while force users on official (average force users) are not too strong.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 08, 2016, 01:58:19 pm
Events have long request for  a special gamemode, with their (big) maps and special classes. For example - a Jedi Master.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Vengeful on February 08, 2016, 02:25:41 pm
I am going to make a collection of all the possible nerfs/changes, so it is easier to follow this thread.


If you want any point added to this list PM me.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 08, 2016, 02:28:53 pm
4. Send them to a separate gamemode.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 08, 2016, 03:06:56 pm
Half-measures will not help anyway.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 08, 2016, 03:11:29 pm
I'm not saying that it is the general opinion. But as long as the facts on my side.  In third version of the module.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 08, 2016, 03:14:11 pm
So, the fact that the Jedi unreasonably strong it not a fact? Then what is our problem?

Hey, can I start using quotes. You're wasting your time.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Vengeful on February 08, 2016, 03:18:06 pm
That is your opinion. That is also my opinion. That is most peoples opinion. Still some might think they are not.

But that is not the point, you are still trying to shove your opinion down everyones throat as if you were following a religion into a new crusade.

I would suggest removing your last posts too, since it is spamming the discussion.

Hey, can I start using quotes. You're wasting your time.

Everyone can use quotes, you chose not to.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 08, 2016, 03:20:45 pm
That is your opinion. That is also my opinion. That is most peoples opinion. Still some might think they are not.

But that is not the point, you are still trying to shove your opinion down everyones throat as if you were following a religion into a new crusade.

I would suggest removing your last posts too, since it is spamming the discussion.

This is the meaning of the forum.
While this is not a fact, we will have a half-empty server.

But you for some reason is eraseing posts.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Velorn on February 08, 2016, 03:58:29 pm
-Melee stunlock
-increased force costs on blasterbolt reflection/Vengefuls idea with the 10-20 shot counter and the boosted force regeneration (if that is possible to do)
-more force jump cost (200-300)

dont u think that would make them hard to play for beginners?
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Vengeful on February 08, 2016, 04:07:37 pm
-Melee stunlock
-increased force costs on blasterbolt reflection/Vengefuls idea with the 10-20 shot counter and the boosted force regeneration (if that is possible to do)
-more force jump cost (200-300)

dont u think that would make them hard to play for beginners?

I was only listing all the ideas we had until now :) In no way I want them all to be done.

but IMO the Force users should be hard to play but rewarding to master.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Velorn on February 08, 2016, 04:16:01 pm
its my suggestion how we could possibly balance them  :) it might be hard to do but im sure we will find a solution
Quote
but IMO the Force users should be hard to play but rewarding to master.

i totally agree with u we should atleast try to balance them as far as we can
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Euronymous on February 08, 2016, 04:31:14 pm
Ill throw in disabling jump attacks in here. They are stupidly good with jedi's, and honestly ruins duel.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Vengeful on February 08, 2016, 04:41:08 pm
Ill throw in disabling jump attacks in here. They are stupidly good with jedi's, and honestly ruins duel.

UPDATED

I am going to make a collection of all the possible nerfs/changes, so it is easier to follow this thread.

  • weaken their defence against melee: bringing back melee stunlock, slight nerf against blasters (not explained how)
  • weaken their defence against blasters: give force users more counterplay, by
    • reducing their force through higher costs (either jumping or blocking)
    • changing their skillset, having them block a set amount of shots and then wait a set amount of seconds before they can block again
  • weaken their defence against a specific class (flamethrower)
  • disabling attacking while jumping

If you want any point added to this list PM me.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: BNS Sleekphantom on February 08, 2016, 04:46:44 pm
@Sellsword, do not spam comments to boost your posts. Have something extra to say? Edit your last post.

Back to the topic. Personally, I think the Jedi are less "op" than in any version before. Previous versions allowed stunlock, 100 force per jump and less challenging enemies. I do agree they will need nerfing to certain extents, positively and negatively but what I fear is that the Jedi will quite literally become a useless component who has to flee every shot and be able to do nothing.
The Jedi are supposed to be a so called elite class, hence so few are used for events.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Gus on February 08, 2016, 04:52:02 pm
Ill throw in disabling jump attacks in here. They are stupidly good with jedi's, and honestly ruins duel.

I'd be up for trying that.

-Melee stunlock
-increased force costs on blasterbolt reflection/Vengefuls idea with the 10-20 shot counter and the boosted force regeneration (if that is possible to do)
-more force jump cost (200-300)

dont u think that would make them hard to play for beginners?

Something like that, perhaps not as drastic. I think increasing the cost of blaster deflection to the pre-patch levels or slightly higher, and making the force jump 200 instead of 150 would be a good compromise. If stun lock can be re-introduced for melee, that might be good.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Vengeful on February 08, 2016, 04:58:06 pm
what I fear is that the Jedi will quite literally become a useless component who has to flee every shot and be able to do nothing.

Thats why I am trying to collect every possible balancing change, so we can then discuss, which ones should be done, and to what extent so the Jedi still feel strong, but are actually not frustrating to play against.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 08, 2016, 05:33:31 pm
@Sellsword, do not spam comments to boost your posts. Have something extra to say? Edit your last post.

Back to the topic. Personally, I think the Jedi are less "op" than in any version before. Previous versions allowed stunlock, 100 force per jump and less challenging enemies. I do agree they will need nerfing to certain extents, positively and negatively but what I fear is that the Jedi will quite literally become a useless component who has to flee every shot and be able to do nothing.
The Jedi are supposed to be a so called elite class, hence so few are used for events.

I did not do it, just the posts between my posts were deleted.Right Vengeful? :)


Jedi should run from the most shots. Because otherwise they can not be shoot. They will become the elite class only when only skilled players will be able to use them effectively.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Aijnin on February 09, 2016, 02:01:56 am
An experienced sith/jedi can kill three other Force Users in just one jumping run. It doesn't matter as long as they are taken by surprise. It's not that jedi/sith are easy to use and are too OP, but it possesses much more potential than ranged classes, and many players reach that potential.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 09, 2016, 10:27:47 am
I killed three people just holding the right mouse button.  :)
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Velorn on February 09, 2016, 11:36:42 am
@ Aijinin

then they have to be more fragile
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 09, 2016, 11:39:43 am
Well, now they are not iron, as in the previous version. But instead they got a very powerful active armor.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Velorn on February 09, 2016, 11:53:07 am
yeah they just have to die faster less hp and less force
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Vengeful on February 09, 2016, 12:00:18 pm
yeah they just have to die faster less hp and less force

I don't think that would solve a single thing. All it would do is worsening the experience for Force users while still being frustrating to play against.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Velorn on February 09, 2016, 12:09:07 pm
well i think its a bad experiance if 3 miniguns take 25 seconds to kill a sith

but i agree with ur idea i will talk to Marko about it
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 09, 2016, 12:26:32 pm
The situation when a droid can hack Jedi to death even more silly. But it is becoming increasingly real.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Vengeful on February 09, 2016, 12:27:33 pm
The situation when a droid can hack Jedi to death even more silly. But it is becoming increasingly real.

The situation where you get banned for spamming is also becoming increasingly real.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 09, 2016, 12:29:48 pm
The situation when a droid can hack Jedi to death even more silly. But it is becoming increasingly real.

The situation where you get banned for spamming is also becoming increasingly real.
Again you are going to erase posts? In my opinion it is more deserving of punishment.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Vengeful on February 09, 2016, 01:31:28 pm
The situation when a droid can hack Jedi to death even more silly. But it is becoming increasingly real.

The situation where you get banned for spamming is also becoming increasingly real.
Again you are going to erase posts? In my opinion it is more deserving of punishment.

I delete Posts because they are not related to the topic, I will just reference the forum rules here.

7 - Spamming:
Spam clogs up the forum, makes relevant information harder to find and read and is generally annoying.
Making unnecessary posts with little reading value is considered spam, as well as multiple posting with the same idea/sentence. Forums are not a chat, use the 'Modify' button instead of triple-posting. Meme images are also considered spam, especially if they don't add any value to the topic at hand. Quote pyramids are considered spam, and are strictly forbidden as they do nothing and slow down servers.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: BNS Sleekphantom on February 09, 2016, 01:41:22 pm
The situation when a droid can hack Jedi to death even more silly. But it is becoming increasingly real.

The situation where you get banned for spamming is also becoming increasingly real.

I laughed.

Also, I agree that it takes a while for people to drain a Jedi/Sith's force. However, it takes far longer to regain that force. Yes, it does require a certain amount of experience and skill to be actually somewhat decent with a Jedi/Sith. The amount of complaints about Jedi/Sith is so damn high I fear they're going to be completely nullified from the mod and it will just become a WWI trench warfare game.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Vengeful on February 09, 2016, 01:53:30 pm
Also, I agree that it takes a while for people to drain a Jedi/Sith's force. However, it takes far longer to regain that force. Yes, it does require a certain amount of experience and skill to be actually somewhat decent with a Jedi/Sith. The amount of complaints about Jedi/Sith is so damn high I fear they're going to be completely nullified from the mod and it will just become a WWI trench warfare game.

I agree with you, thats why I suggested my Idea.

Make the cost of blocking shots really high so you can only block incoming fire for ~10 seconds, but also make the waiting time until you can go in again wayy lower.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Velorn on February 09, 2016, 01:54:48 pm
and i agree with u ^^
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 09, 2016, 01:57:31 pm
BNS Sleekphantom
I laughed. Maybe someone did tell me, how many hours you need to spend on training to use Conter? 

If the soldiers survive a meeting with the Jedi, he can easily retreat to a safe place and rest.
Now we have shields. And maybe Jedi need to remember it.

Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: BNS Sleekphantom on February 09, 2016, 03:36:20 pm
BNS Sleekphantom
I laughed. Maybe someone did tell me, how many hours you need to spend on training to use Conter? 

If the soldiers survive a meeting with the Jedi, he can easily retreat to a safe place and rest.
Now we have shields. And maybe Jedi need to remember it.

Talking with you is like trying to argue with a brick wall.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 09, 2016, 03:55:24 pm
Of course, because you know I'm right, but you can not accept. You can not prove the skill requirement for the Jedi.

Personally, I see only one solution.  The counter should be a last resort, but not the main weapon of the Jedi. Therefore, it should reflect no more than 7-10 hits.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Gus on February 09, 2016, 04:01:13 pm
"Countering" was one of the most common disciplines of the Jedi, it's a not a last resort. Anyone familiar with the Soresu style would know how to do it, and Jedi favoured defensive styles (thus why I liked the nerf of jumping). Perhaps Force Powers should be more expensive so you can only pick, for example, Force Defence and Force Jump in the first round; then you'd have to earn the more advanced powers like Counter, Lightning, Teleport, Regeneration, etc.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Jepekula on February 09, 2016, 04:04:10 pm
Another possible option could be to remove the chance to kill people with deflecting shots. As far as I know, currently it is a flat XX% chance to hit someone in the face with a deflected shot, with no skill involved. Being killed due to no fault of one's own nor due to the skill of the other is not fun nor is it even rewarding to the force user. While balancing a skill-based game, luck, as a factor, should be minimized.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Velorn on February 09, 2016, 04:07:20 pm
i agree
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 09, 2016, 04:07:30 pm
And in the film were thousands of droids and tanks. Do not confuse the gameplay with the lore. Protection, yes. But now they are using it as an attack. Killing or paralyzing dozens of infantrymen, without any effort on the part of the player .

I'm afraid that they can not live up to the new skills because they will die in every round without active protection. Additionally, many servers have unlimited money.

Jepekula
With automatic rifle, you can very quickly get 3 reflected bullets in the stomach.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Vengeful on February 09, 2016, 04:13:48 pm
"Countering" was one of the most common disciplines of the Jedi, it's a not a last resort. Anyone familiar with the Soresu style would know how to do it, and Jedi favoured defensive styles (thus why I liked the nerf of jumping). Perhaps Force Powers should be more expensive so you can only pick, for example, Force Defence and Force Jump in the first round; then you'd have to earn the more advanced powers like Counter, Lightning, Teleport, Regeneration, etc.

While that would be one way to solve the official server problem, I still think it would be better to give the force users a more transparent kit. Because new players will join the game, shoot at a Jedi and not see any result and die. The loss of force power may be bad for the Jedi himself, but the average guy shooting at him doesn't see it dropping neither does he know when it will be empty. A clear number of shots a Jedi can block before he has to recharge would give the average soldier a kind of satisfaction when hitting shots.

(Also mayby make the chance of hitting an enemy in the head based off of how long the jedi is blocking for? :D I don't remember which game it was, but there was a game where you had to block the moment the shot would hit you to reflect it back at the enemy)
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 09, 2016, 04:18:02 pm
If this were so, we would not have problems. Alas, the block is automatically and change these aspects to be very difficult, i think.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Velorn on February 09, 2016, 04:18:16 pm
or make the reflected bullets do 20% of the initial damage? and remove the possibility to hit the head
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Jepekula on February 09, 2016, 04:23:09 pm
(Also mayby make the chance of hitting an enemy in the head based off of how long the jedi is blocking for? :D I don't remember which game it was, but there was a game where you had to block the moment the shot would hit you to reflect it back at the enemy)
In quite many games there's a "perfect block" mechanic, where you can block early and still block, but if you block at the "perfect" moment it gives you something extra and blocks 100% of the damage. In the old PS2 game Colosseum: Road to Freedom (which I loved as a kid) you could disarm enemies with a perfect block.

Jepekula
With automatic rifle, you can very quickly get 3 reflected bullets in the stomach.
Could you please elaborate? I don't quite follow.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 09, 2016, 04:27:04 pm
This feature is created in the module, not in the main game, so it is difficult to reconcile with the mechanics.

The auto weapon has a very high rate so, if a Jedi will reflect shots only to the body, he can still quickly kill infantry.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Jepekula on February 09, 2016, 04:31:49 pm
Okay, so, what the hell are you trying to say? That you agree with me?
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 09, 2016, 04:35:07 pm
Okay, so, what the hell are you trying to say? That you agree with me?

No, I believe tha a reflection only in the body will not help.  I still believe that much higher power consumption is the best option. Perhaps, with the accelerated regeneration. Simply put, the Jedi should be able to reflect the first shots, but do not run directly on the machine guns.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Jepekula on February 09, 2016, 04:40:26 pm
What are you talking about? Your ramblings make no sense. I said, that jedi should not be able to kill people by deflecting shots, and you ramble about "reflection only in the body". I don't see any mirrors here.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 09, 2016, 04:43:02 pm
What are you talking about? Your ramblings make no sense. I said, that jedi should not be able to kill people by deflecting shots, and you ramble about "reflection only in the body". I don't see any mirrors here.

Oh, you're about it. No, this is not an option, if he will not hurt the shooters, they will just shoot at him until he will weaken. It was in the first versions, when Conter was broken.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Velorn on February 09, 2016, 04:46:48 pm
i agree a complete counter removal is impossible but maybe "only body reflection" and 50% damage would do good
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 09, 2016, 04:49:23 pm
It is possible to try.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: BNS Sleekphantom on February 09, 2016, 04:57:45 pm
Of course, because you know I'm right, but you can not accept. You can not prove the skill requirement for the Jedi.

Personally, I see only one solution.  The counter should be a last resort, but not the main weapon of the Jedi. Therefore, it should reflect no more than 7-10 hits.

When I say arguing with you is like arguing with a brick wall is because you completely overlook what I have to say.  I think you're horribly wrong, which I can accept. I can prove the skill requirement for Jedi because I play it a lot. Yes, it's a tad easier in certain aspects in the new update, but it also is a tad harder in other aspects since the update.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Jepekula on February 09, 2016, 05:01:10 pm
Oh, you're about it. No, this is not an option, if he will not hurt the shooters, they will just shoot at him until he will weaken. It was in the first versions, when Conter was broken.
I do not understand you. You have no consistency. First, you complain, rightfully, that there is no skill needed to get kills as a jedi with the force counter, now you are arguing that it should not be removed?
Besides, even now, shooters usually prioritize on the jedi, even when they have the chance to kill their shooters without effort, and you yourself have said that it is very easy for the jedi to close the range between him and the one shooting at him:
Only one way out - the Jedi should be weaker. Yes, now they stand less damage. But firstly, lack stun gives them a great advantage. Secondly, they practically do not get tired from firing, even when reflected, so they can easily cut the distance. People often choose the strongest class.

In addition, you have said that they now use their defensive skill on offense:
And in the film were thousands of droids and tanks. Do not confuse the gameplay with the lore. Protection, yes. But now they are using it as an attack. Killing or paralyzing dozens of infantrymen, without any effort on the part of the player .
You have even outright said that jedi have too many advantages and requires no skill or effort to play:
Danilkom
This is a wrong view.  Jets are now virtually useless in combat class that is only used for the delaying process.  Jedi is the class which has many unfair advantages that require little or no skill of the player.

In general, the exclusion of the stun is a very big mistake for four reasons.

Now, which is it? Should the jedi be nerfed or left alone? Is the counter too strong in offense for a defensive ability?
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: BNS Sleekphantom on February 09, 2016, 05:03:00 pm
Jepe understands the struggle. I thought I was alone..  :'(
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 09, 2016, 05:03:42 pm
Of course, because you know I'm right, but you can not accept. You can not prove the skill requirement for the Jedi.

Personally, I see only one solution.  The counter should be a last resort, but not the main weapon of the Jedi. Therefore, it should reflect no more than 7-10 hits.

When I say arguing with you is like arguing with a brick wall is because you completely overlook what I have to say.  I think you're horribly wrong, which I can accept. I can prove the skill requirement for Jedi because I play it a lot. Yes, it's a tad easier in certain aspects in the new update, but it also is a tad harder in other aspects since the update.

I did not notice that Conter disabled in the latest version, on the contrary, made more effective. And the absence of the stun allows Jedi ignore bullet at close range, in the brief moments removed protection during the swing.
They definitely become weaker.

Or maybe you could prove it by the most reliable way for such an experienced player?

The only thing that makes the Jedi elite class - that is their status. 

Jepekula
I'm trying to think of others. If the Jedi will disappear or become useless class, it will upset other players. I'm trying to find a balance.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: BNS Sleekphantom on February 09, 2016, 05:07:52 pm

I did not notice that Conter disabled in the latest version, on the contrary, made more effective. And the absence of the stun allows Jedi ignore bullet at close range, in the brief moments removed protection during the swing.
They definitely become weaker.

Or maybe you could prove it by the most reliable way for such an experienced player?

The only thing that makes the Jedi elite class - that is their status.

Seriously, what the heck are you trying to say..? It really hurts to try to comprehend what you're trying to bring across.
"Conter" is was not disabled. The no stun-lock does allow the Jedi to ignore lasers but it also gives the shooter to easily shoot the Jedi if he doesn't one shot the shooter.
I won't even bother to try to answer this failed sentence "Or maybe you could prove it by the most reliable way for such an experienced player?"

Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Jepekula on February 09, 2016, 05:09:09 pm
I'm trying to think of others. If the Jedi will disappear or become useless class, it will upset other players. I'm trying to find a balance.
You're still not being consistent at all, nor would making the counter a purely defensive ability make jedi "disappear" or "become useless". I can not understand how you are able to come up with these straw mans, each more imaginative than the last.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 09, 2016, 05:11:16 pm
BNS Sleekphantom
I suggest you prove skills of the Jedi in a duel. But with some conditions.

Jepekula
You played in the very first public version?
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Vengeful on February 09, 2016, 05:13:58 pm
I am not going to even try and figure out what happened here on my way home, but please stop ****posting thanks. Write something for the topic and don't argue with each other who has the larger e-penis

If he doesn't make sense, leave it be and move on answering others who make sense, dont let him pull you down into a ****fest of this size.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: BNS Sleekphantom on February 09, 2016, 05:15:52 pm
BNS Sleekphantom
I suggest you prove skills of the Jedi in a duel. But with some conditions.


You can't just suggest something and give no backup reasoning or instructions for it.
I've been playing this mod for years now and very confident in playing a Jedi, hence I had been giving MY experience of it.
So before you go around spewing rubbish with no backup in any sort, just don't don anything.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Jepekula on February 09, 2016, 05:18:00 pm
Jepekula
You played in the very first public version?
Yes, yes I did. I don't see how that is relevant at all, though.
And Vengeful, I'll keep posting as long as I find it fun. Thank you very much for your concern.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Vengeful on February 09, 2016, 05:19:18 pm
Vengeful, I'll keep posting as long as I find it fun. Thank you very much for your concern.

It may be fun, but some people are actually trying to discuss a pretty important matter don't you think?
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 09, 2016, 05:19:50 pm
BNS Sleekphantom
I suggest you prove skills of the Jedi in a duel. But with some conditions.


You can just suggest something and give no backup reasoning or instructions for it.
I've been playing this mod for years now and very confident in playing a Jedi, hence I had been giving MY experience of it.
So before you go around spewing rubbish with no backup in any sort, just don't don anything.

So do I. And I perfectly see what became Jedi - class does not require any talent, but bringing a good result.  The shooter must think, aim, evade. Jedi must keep the block and run forward, and then hit, not even thinking about the shot in the face.

By the way, the blow of the sword is almost always fatal. Especially if the person played in the native.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: BNS Sleekphantom on February 09, 2016, 05:26:44 pm

By the way, the blow of the sword is almost always fatal. Especially if the person played in the native.

Back to native again..
Native has nothing to do with any of this so stop referencing it for no good reason.

Quote
Jedi must keep the block and run forward, and then beat, not even thinking about the shot in the face.
Are you kidding me? Not to worry about a shot to the face? Have you even played this mod at all?

I have a suggestion. Go back to your beloved Native.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Gus on February 09, 2016, 05:30:06 pm
@Sellsword: The Jedi is strong, yes, it's supposed to be. Clones/Droids should have very bad odds against a Jedi in a 1 vs. 1; they must work together, and if they play their cards right, a couple or more droids multiply their chances by a lot if they work together instead of trying to run off on their own.

I agree with you about the droid melee capability though. The short Vibro Sword was strong even before the patch (I could easily take out inexperienced Jedi by chambering and using the fast attack speed), but now it can even block and it can also be used with a shield. Except for the loss of stun, basic classes have a better chance of killing Jedi in melee in this patch than in the last one.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 09, 2016, 05:35:09 pm

By the way, the blow of the sword is almost always fatal. Especially if the person played in the native.

Back to native again..
Native has nothing to do with any of this so stop referencing it for no good reason.

Quote
Jedi must keep the block and run forward, and then beat, not even thinking about the shot in the face.
Are you kidding me? Not to worry about a shot to the face? Have you even played this mod at all?

I have a suggestion. Go back to your beloved Native.

Today I shot in the head of the Jedi with pair of pistols. Point blank. I saw the blood on the hood. He survived, I do not. This situation has been three times.


Gus
One question - why should they?

Besides, now even the ten clones, shooting together, can not kill the Jedi. He is almost impenetrable.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Gus on February 09, 2016, 05:37:28 pm
Because ranged classes are not suitable for soloing, whereas Jedi are.

All it takes is for one or two to get behind the Jedi, surrounding him, he can only deflect in front.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 09, 2016, 05:39:17 pm
I wonder then why they needed the clone army?

Do you think a Jedi so easily surround? He is very fast moving.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Gus on February 09, 2016, 05:41:19 pm
Why the useless comment? That has nothing to do with the discussion. Of course they needed the clone army, because all "classes" have their use in different areas; which is also the case in the mod.

EDIT: It happens all the time with reckless Jedi. Blaster wielders should stop shooting at a Jedi in front of them that is countering, it's quite simple. Problem is that the blasters have such a high rate of fire that many inexperienced blaster wielders won't notice the counter before they're dead. If they take a moment to think, they should fire a testing shot before spraying all over the place. If the Jedi hasn't got counter, go for it, keep shooting; if he has, however, you'd better pull out your melee weapon or try to make a "Leinand".
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 09, 2016, 05:44:26 pm
Well, you said that the Jedi is lone wolves.

Each class must have its weaknesses. Jedi do not have them. They are immune to the shooters on the range and much more in the melee.  And all of this does not depend on the skill of the player.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: BNS Sleekphantom on February 09, 2016, 05:47:40 pm
I wonder then why they needed the clone army?

Do you think a Jedi so easily surround? He is very fast moving.

Because clones are easy to replace, Jedi are not. It's that simple.

Why the useless comment? That has nothing to do with the discussion. Of course they needed the clone army, because all "classes" have their use in different areas; which is also the case in the mod.

Sums it up.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 09, 2016, 05:48:18 pm
Why the useless comment? That has nothing to do with the discussion. Of course they needed the clone army, because all "classes" have their use in different areas; which is also the case in the mod.

EDIT: It happens all the time with reckless Jedi. Blaster wielders should stop shooting at a Jedi in front of them that is countering, it's quite simple. Problem is that the blasters have such a high rate of fire that many inexperienced blaster wielders won't notice the counter before they're dead. If they take a moment to think, they should fire a testing shot before spraying all over the place. If the Jedi hasn't got counter, go for it, keep shooting; if he has, however, you'd better pull out your melee weapon or try to make a "Leinand".

If they notice it, they just do not shoot, but they can not let out of sight of the Jedi. So he paralyzes several people doing nothing.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Gus on February 09, 2016, 05:49:40 pm
Each class must have its weaknesses. Jedi do not have them. They are immune to the shooters on the range and much more in the melee.  And all of this does not depend on the skill of the player.

It does, but as has been stated, the Jedi has more potential than other classes. A player who's inexperienced or simply bad at melee (or too reckless) will not be doing very well - a player who's spent countless hours as a Jedi will be able to reach a very high level of skill, to the point were he can take out a whole enemy team if all goes well for him. EDIT: And especially if said enemy team fails to cooperate.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 09, 2016, 05:55:47 pm
Each class must have its weaknesses. Jedi do not have them. They are immune to the shooters on the range and much more in the melee.  And all of this does not depend on the skill of the player.

It does, but as has been stated, the Jedi has more potential than other classes. A player who's inexperienced or simply bad at melee (or too reckless) will not be doing very well - a player who's spent countless hours as a Jedi will be able to reach a very high level of skill, to the point were he can take out a whole enemy team if all goes well for him. EDIT: And especially if said enemy team fails to cooperate.

These are the words, the fact is that even a novice can kill gunslinger using only the Conter and no stun. Without that, he would certainly lose. Therefore, I very rarely play for the Jedi.
The team is good, but when the Jedi rushing at you, you have to count on yourself.


I repeat, the problem is not that powerful Jedi, but  that he is strong in every hands and it's not fair relative to the other classes.

PS Rather, he killed you because you were injured.  ;)
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Aijnin on February 12, 2016, 02:17:24 am
If force users were nerfed the way people mentioned in this post, it would become a very painful class to play. Only 3 or 4 jumps with max force, and if jump attacks are disabled, it's basically just become a fast method of moving, as jumping near enemies, and THEN swinging takes a long time due to lightsaber swing speed. Stunlock would kill the force user first.

And then they would just become a class where you hold right click and hope people are dumb enough to shoot at you at close range to get kills (counter), assuming you don't get surrounded. Ironically, it would become easier for force users to fight other melee, other than to fight ranged where a small mistake puts them in stunlock and kills them.

Might I suggest giving stun to melee weapons, but not to ranged weapons?
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Vengeful on February 12, 2016, 07:41:30 am
Might I suggest giving stun to melee weapons, but not to ranged weapons?

As I have said before, we are only collecting possible changes. I agree that ranged stunlock should stay removed.

Other than that I think a change that would make force users more fun to play and more fun to play against:

Higher the cost of blocking shots into ridiculous heights, but also set the regenaration of energy to a ridiculous height. So it actually feels usefull shooting at the force user. Because how it is right now, you can shoot him 20 times and you don't have any indication how much you have to hit him until he is vulnurable. If there is a set amount of shots, a Squad can focusfire him down (how it is supposed to be). But the Force user can pull back and wait ~20-30 seconds and have full energy again.

Less frustrating to play against and (i think) more fun to play as, since you don't have to wait ages until your energy is up again.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 12, 2016, 11:07:31 am
If force users were nerfed the way people mentioned in this post, it would become a very painful class to play. Only 3 or 4 jumps with max force, and if jump attacks are disabled, it's basically just become a fast method of moving, as jumping near enemies, and THEN swinging takes a long time due to lightsaber swing speed. Stunlock would kill the force user first.

And then they would just become a class where you hold right click and hope people are dumb enough to shoot at you at close range to get kills (counter), assuming you don't get surrounded. Ironically, it would become easier for force users to fight other melee, other than to fight ranged where a small mistake puts them in stunlock and kills them.

Might I suggest giving stun to melee weapons, but not to ranged weapons?

In fact, the majority of the Jedi just use the counter for attack. Someone does not even try to hit. Only keeps the block.

Personally, I is not interested in playing for the shooter, because I always know what the outcome of my fight with any Jedi.

By the way, there is another way to weaken them.  A little lower HP of Jedi.  Jedi kills with one blow, so he should die from a single shot. At least from the powerful but slow weapon like a shotgun or a pair of pistols. This will help against the brazen attacks at close range when the Jedi deliberately takes a shot because of the absence of the stun.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Kloney on February 12, 2016, 12:31:30 pm
Hi i'm new here hows it going.

Jedi seem alright to me.

Use Vengefuls idea of certain seconds or amount of blocks in order to nerf the counter.

???

profit.

This has been a PSA from Kloney, i hope you come to love/hate me in the future.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: BNS Sleekphantom on February 12, 2016, 12:42:03 pm
Hi i'm new here hows it going.

Jedi seem alright to me.

Use Vengefuls idea of certain seconds or amount of blocks in order to nerf the counter.

???

profit.

This has been a PSA from Kloney, i hope you come to love/hate me in the future.

Go back to Mercs you peasant. Charlotte lives there.

I honestly think Jedi are fine (Except for no melee stun anymore). Events are fairly okay in my opinion for Jedi/Sith but public is where everyone whines and people who can't use Jedi/Sith take those slots and end up losing it for the team which then causes a landslide of comments like "OMG FAK JEDI NOOOB SO BAD".. Which just frustrates people in the end. Public players will always have something to complain about, just keep that in mind.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Vengeful on February 12, 2016, 12:46:26 pm
Sleek my change would not nerf or buff the jedi, it would only change the pace of the game for them, making it faster.

And public is kind of frustrating not only when bad jedis are there, but also when good jedi are there. Yesterday I was on a server with 16 players and every round was over as soon as our jedi reached them, because they all died. Then as a counter they picked jedi, forcing our entire team to pick sith. And at that point I left the server...
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 12, 2016, 02:00:40 pm
Bad ... good. He often wins.

Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: BNS Sleekphantom on February 12, 2016, 02:15:56 pm
Bad ... good. He often wins.

If you've nothing useful or anything that makes sense to say, don't do so at all.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Jepekula on February 12, 2016, 02:26:44 pm
To be honest, adding melee stun would make fighting with jedi far more bearable. As it is, melee feels more like Greco-Roman wrestling than fighting with sharp objects.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 12, 2016, 02:49:58 pm
But shooting at them will be even more thankless task.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Jepekula on February 12, 2016, 03:21:22 pm
I can't see how melee-stun could affect shooting.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 12, 2016, 03:35:43 pm
Well, if the Jedi will not kill shooter with a single stroke, he will have a stun to apply a second stroke, without fear of being shot.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Jepekula on February 12, 2016, 03:36:35 pm
The stun isn't long enough to deny you the ability to block.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 12, 2016, 03:38:44 pm
Block with a rifle?
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Jepekula on February 12, 2016, 03:51:22 pm
You should have a knife with you.
If you don't it's your own fault.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 12, 2016, 03:56:43 pm
I can not shoot at a distance, I can not shoot at close range. Maybe firearms is not need in the module? If we consider that the mod has been created around them.

And I have said, when the infantry fences with the Jedi, this is nonsense like Seventh Episode.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Jepekula on February 12, 2016, 04:04:36 pm
You can decide to get cut up if you want, I'm content with fencing with the jedi.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 12, 2016, 04:07:33 pm
There is another option:
#Invalid YouTube Link#
Shoot him down. Unfortunately, this possibility is contrary to the mechanics of the module.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Jepekula on February 12, 2016, 04:14:03 pm
Am I blind or why does it seem to me that he wasn't shot from sword range?
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 12, 2016, 04:17:29 pm
But the counter did not save him.   ;)

And Mundi shows us that there is a stun for rifles.  ;D
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Velorn on February 12, 2016, 06:37:33 pm
i agree and we allready have some nice thoughts about how to make guns usefull against jedi
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 14, 2016, 09:15:34 pm
Speaking of weakening, it is possible to slightly reduce the flight speed of the Jedi? They fly faster than all the running around, it is very difficult to dodge.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Gus on February 14, 2016, 10:01:11 pm
Why don't we just give Jedi wooden swords? Then it would be easier to shoot them.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 14, 2016, 10:08:06 pm
Well, I'm not asking to hang them in the air. Just a chance to dodge.  If we consider that the bullet is no longer interrupt the jump. Or a blow at the end.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: BNS Sleekphantom on February 15, 2016, 11:33:45 am
Sellsword, you obviously just want the Jedi/Sith gone. Just say it.
Making their flight speed slower (if possible) is just ridiculous.
It's not too hard to dodge and only people who have practiced it for a while can effectively pull it through.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 15, 2016, 12:49:06 pm
Then return the stunning and it will fix all the problems. Ridiculously, when having received a bullet or two in the stomach no one even flinches.
At the forum, each of us a champion.

Well, I do not mind if they go to a separate gamemode. But I try to find a compromise, because now, on servers, almost all are Jedi.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: BNS Nuno on February 15, 2016, 01:32:53 pm
They can all be jedis in a team of 20, but only 6 know how to play as one. And please all you do is complain at everything and you are never satisfied, so get a bit of training or start playing a new class.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 15, 2016, 01:34:41 pm
Yeah -  Jedi.  ;)
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: BNS Sleekphantom on February 15, 2016, 01:40:57 pm
Yeah -  Jedi.  ;)

When you post something, can you PLEASE post something that makes sense or is actually beneficial? Stop boosting your posts..

They can all be jedis in a team of 20, but only 6 know how to play as one. And please all you do is complain at everything and you are never satisfied, so get a bit of training or start playing a new class.

^^^^^^^
Such true words. However, six may be an overstatement! :p
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 15, 2016, 03:25:27 pm
or start playing a new class.

Jedi. You can not win so join. Like many on the server.  :)
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Velorn on February 15, 2016, 07:33:22 pm
well... sellsword is not that wrong im being forced to play jedi very often just because we are loosing without me beeing a jedi and after i switched the class i kill like 5-10 ppl without being killed and thats just stupid  :'(
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Ares on February 15, 2016, 11:01:36 pm
Personally I think jedi has been nerfed enough. The solution might be buffing others classes ? That would open a new discussion but I think it's the way we should take to balance clones//droids-forces users.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Vengeful on February 15, 2016, 11:53:06 pm
Personally I think jedi has been nerfed enough. The solution might be buffing others classes ? That would open a new discussion but I think it's the way we should take to balance clones//droids-forces users.

IMO the gunners got buffed with 0.4 anyways, I think the jedi need a change of gameplay, faster paced but with more possible counterplay. As a Jedi you are almost invincible as long as you have force. Right now you have a lot of force and can block for ages. But when you have no force left you are out of options.

Why not make the force regen really fast, but the force powers cost a lot more?
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 16, 2016, 10:30:11 am
Personally I think jedi has been nerfed enough. The solution might be buffing others classes ? That would open a new discussion but I think it's the way we should take to balance clones//droids-forces users.

Other classes good balanced in relation to each other. But the Jedi with their almost complete invulnerability knocked out of the picture.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Jepekula on February 16, 2016, 12:29:24 pm
Personally I think jedi has been nerfed enough. The solution might be buffing others classes ? That would open a new discussion but I think it's the way we should take to balance clones//droids-forces users.

IMO the gunners got buffed with 0.4 anyways, I think the jedi need a change of gameplay, faster paced but with more possible counterplay. As a Jedi you are almost invincible as long as you have force. Right now you have a lot of force and can block for ages. But when you have no force left you are out of options.

Why not make the force regen really fast, but the force powers cost a lot more?
I agree with you. Another good thing would be to make counter unable to kill other people. It's a complete RNG-gamble in a primarily skill-based game.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Velorn on February 16, 2016, 01:16:02 pm
sorry RNG-Gamble?  :)
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Vengeful on February 16, 2016, 01:17:07 pm
sorry RNG-Gamble?  :)

He meant that it is RNG, wether or not your block deflect kills the enemy. Rather make it an automatic bodyshot or something.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 16, 2016, 01:32:08 pm
Personally I think jedi has been nerfed enough. The solution might be buffing others classes ? That would open a new discussion but I think it's the way we should take to balance clones//droids-forces users.

IMO the gunners got buffed with 0.4 anyways, I think the jedi need a change of gameplay, faster paced but with more possible counterplay. As a Jedi you are almost invincible as long as you have force. Right now you have a lot of force and can block for ages. But when you have no force left you are out of options.

Why not make the force regen really fast, but the force powers cost a lot more?
I agree with you. Another good thing would be to make counter unable to kill other people. It's a complete RNG-gamble in a primarily skill-based game.

Absolutely no counters is not an option, at least if you want to save the Jedi as a class.  I'm still for the shortest duration. Jedi can reflect 7-12 shots, then he starts to get damaged.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Jepekula on February 17, 2016, 03:09:26 pm
You're either just immensely ****ing retarded or completely illiterate.
I am not sure which is worse.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: BNS Marko on February 17, 2016, 04:24:09 pm
Please, guys.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: KickingJoub on February 17, 2016, 04:38:59 pm
Please, guys.

I prefer pleasing girls 8) Yeah... I've got nothing to add anymore, can't think of much that hasn't been discussed already so might as well stop the silly arguments that go around in circles.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 17, 2016, 05:07:54 pm
I am also waiting for the new version.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: BNS Sleekphantom on February 17, 2016, 06:20:45 pm
I am also waiting for the new version.
You're either just immensely ****ing retarded or completely illiterate.
I am not sure which is worse.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 17, 2016, 07:47:47 pm
Say something on the topic.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: BNS Michael on February 17, 2016, 08:38:53 pm
becaus you suck in melee doesnt mean that the jedi have to be removed
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 17, 2016, 10:17:03 pm
becaus you suck in melee doesnt mean that the jedi have to be removed

If I will answer you, they will swear. :) And now I'm going to wait for a new version.

Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: BNS Sleekphantom on February 17, 2016, 10:34:57 pm
Could you please learn English and stop using Google translate?
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: GreenStalker on February 17, 2016, 10:35:48 pm
Could you please learn English and stop using Google translate?

He aint about that life...
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Sellsword on February 17, 2016, 10:44:01 pm
Could you please learn English and stop using Google translate?

And this is discrimination.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: Jepekula on February 18, 2016, 01:27:41 pm
Deserved discrimination at best.
Title: Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
Post by: GreenStalker on February 18, 2016, 02:34:44 pm
Could you please learn English and stop using Google translate?

And this is discrimination.

How is that discrimination?