Author Topic: Randomness on a shooting game?  (Read 2123 times)

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Offline Danilkom

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Randomness on a shooting game?
« on: February 29, 2016, 09:49:29 pm »
Hello. I'm writing this to rant about the randomness of the current shooting system.

This is actually a complaint I've made in a previous topic (http://badnamestudios.com/forums/index.php?topic=236.0l), where I was asking for a possibility to have fixed and pre-determined patterns for us to learn, and shoot accurately if we learn how to compensate them.

Well, right now I'm quite pissed off.
I've been starting to do training for the upcoming Winter Cup, and I've noticed how RANDOM the shots are. I've probably noticed it before, but never did complain about it because of the long range nature of the event maps, but the random factor really is annoying when you know that the winter cup maps are much more CQB based.

I can't count the number of times I've got shredded by a minigun at long range, taking shots after shots of repeated, but random projectiles, causing death after death.
So, going to the root of the problem:
The game doesn't reward accuracy enough.

I've recently got used to using the sniper, in the same way as I would use an AK in Counter Strike (outside of the bullet travel factor). But it is really annoying to see how ACCURATE the rifles are in any situation.
But I see you coming: "No, they're not when you move. No, you have to stop moving or crouch."

I already know this. What I'm blaming is the wicked combination of a sick rate of fire and accuracy.
I understood this right after going from 0.3.6 to 0.3.9.4: the sniper is ridiculously rewarding, but the cost for dead accuracy is unreasonably huge.
It was actually my main complaint in not enjoying the game in 0.3.6: the rifles were inaccurate, even while crouching, and the rate of fire was way too low for such a weak accuracy. It was more fitting for a sniper.
And it is.
The issue arises when you compare then with current rifles: they ARE the snipers. Crouching allows you to shoot with perfect accuracy. The only difference with a sniper is the rate of fire, and the bullet travel speed.
But when you have such a ludicrous rate of fire, accuracy doesn't bother you much: 360 ammo with no reloading time, no recoil, allows you to SPAM your gunshots in hope that you touch the enemy.

And I've been shot down WAY too many times, even while strafing, because the gun wasn't perfectly accurate. I ended up getting PUNISHED for strafing to dodge enemy bullets, instead of being rewarded for it, since I'm sacrificing shooting time to strafe.

This shooting system really gets on my nerve. It rewards luck, instead of sheer skill. People who seek to count on skill (AKA snipers) are forced to suffer in silence while their gun is almost a straight downgrade with only 2 actual advantages: the standing accuracy, and the bullet travel speed. I won't talk about the damage since I don't feel like it's game changing enough to be a factor that could be considered an advantage. I know that it should reward good players, but is it necessary to simplify things that much for players who seek a more balanced way to shooting? Do I have to train to the point where I don't miss a single sniper shot, no matter how the enemy is moving, so that he dies before he can exploit the lack of punishment for shooting while moving?

My idea on improving the shooting system would be to implement a shooting pattern system: every gun would have a fixed pattern around the crosshair, where the bullets will always go to the same place (in a way, like the shotgun from 0.3.6, but every bullet would be sent individually, and in a certain order). This will reward players for learning how to use a precise weapon instead of trying to be a jack-of-all trades.
Another idea would be to reduce a lot the rate of fire of the rifle (somewhere between the current one, and the one from 0.3.6), while allowing much better rate of fire for the hipfire, and reducing the rate of fire of the sniper even further (the current one is probably faster than 0.3.6's DC-15 carabine in ADS). In exchange, the bullet travel speed may be increased, or maybe the damage. Because I feel like 5 ammo per shot is ridiculous, compared to the actual damage it causes.

Offline GreenStalker

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Re: Randomness on a shooting game?
« Reply #1 on: February 29, 2016, 10:57:22 pm »
what
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Offline Arthur

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Re: Randomness on a shooting game?
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2016, 12:27:38 am »
Your basicly saying the current shooting system is bad because the shots are random and makes it more realistic and you want something that will use sime type of pattern like your thinking about this before posting?

Don't want to be rude but seriously
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Offline Vengeful

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Re: Randomness on a shooting game?
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2016, 12:48:21 am »
I love how you can write pages over pages to essentially say: "I like Counter Strike"

Offline Velorn

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Re: Randomness on a shooting game?
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2016, 03:15:13 pm »
you are talking about a spray pattern yes?
and that rifles are better snipers then the acctual snipers right?

unfortunately the rest makes no sense(for me) at all

Quote
I can't count the number of times I've got shredded by a minigun at long range, taking shots after shots of repeated, but random projectiles, causing death after death.
its bad **** easy to dodge bullets on long range even while beeing shot by 5 guys

Quote
And I've been shot down WAY too many times, even while strafing, because the gun wasn't perfectly accurate. I ended up getting PUNISHED for strafing to dodge enemy bullets, instead of being rewarded for it, since I'm sacrificing shooting time to strafe.
same thing strafing is easy and gives u a advantage but u cant really complain about ur gun being inaccurate while moving

Quote
Another idea would be to reduce a lot the rate of fire of the rifle (somewhere between the current one, and the one from 0.3.6), while allowing much better rate of fire for the hipfire, and reducing the rate of fire of the sniper even further (the current one is probably faster than 0.3.6's DC-15 carabine in ADS). In exchange, the bullet travel speed may be increased, or maybe the damage. Because I feel like 5 ammo per shot is ridiculous, compared to the actual damage it causes.
how is this a solution?



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Offline Danilkom

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Re: Randomness on a shooting game?
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2016, 06:32:22 pm »
"    I can't count the number of times I've got shredded by a minigun at long range, taking shots after shots of repeated, but random projectiles, causing death after death.

its bad **** easy to dodge bullets on long range even while beeing shot by 5 guys"

I'm dodging bullets by moving, but they always end up hitting me, because of the fact that they spray everywhere. And this happened even in long range.

    "And I've been shot down WAY too many times, even while strafing, because the gun wasn't perfectly accurate. I ended up getting PUNISHED for strafing to dodge enemy bullets, instead of being rewarded for it, since I'm sacrificing shooting time to strafe.

same thing strafing is easy and gives u a advantage but u cant really complain about ur gun being inaccurate while moving"

Like I said above, the bullets can merely GO to my position while strafing, making it utterly useless.
I know that I'm inaccurate while moving, that wasn't my point there. My point was that moving made me die, because the spray actually allows me to NOT move. This is illogical, considering that any shooter actually rewards you for strafing.

"Another idea would be to reduce a lot the rate of fire of the rifle (somewhere between the current one, and the one from 0.3.6), while allowing much better rate of fire for the hipfire, and reducing the rate of fire of the sniper even further (the current one is probably faster than 0.3.6's DC-15 carabine in ADS). In exchange, the bullet travel speed may be increased, or maybe the damage. Because I feel like 5 ammo per shot is ridiculous, compared to the actual damage it causes."

Reducing the rate of fire will decrease the chance of taking a lost bullet. Since there will be less projectiles, the enemy will take much more time to hit you with a lucky shot, rewarding you more for each bullet you send.


Is it making sense now?

And Vengeful, I often use CS as an example because it is the shooting game that sets my standards for a "good" FPS. You ought'a have a predetermined idea of what you want if you want to do suggestions, and CS did gave me a good idea of what I liked and disliked about it.

Offline Sellsword

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Re: Randomness on a shooting game?
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2016, 06:51:42 pm »
Against five shooters you need a cover.

This module WAS much better than CS.

Offline Danilkom

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Re: Randomness on a shooting game?
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2016, 09:02:36 pm »
I don't understand. Of course you need cover against bullets, no matter between CS or BF.
What's your point?

Offline Sellsword

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Re: Randomness on a shooting game?
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2016, 09:31:26 pm »
Cover. Not an attempt to evade the bullets.

Offline GreenStalker

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Re: Randomness on a shooting game?
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2016, 11:06:11 am »
If we were to reduce the fire rate now you know how long would large maps take? No man just no..
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Offline Velorn

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Re: Randomness on a shooting game?
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2016, 12:28:49 pm »
well i dont know about you but i dont need cover on long range maybe u react to slow?
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Offline Sellsword

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Re: Randomness on a shooting game?
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2016, 12:40:47 pm »
And in the middle distance?
Nobody fights at long range, even snipers are not effective.

But all this does not make sense, because now the shooters are practically disappeared due to the absolute inefficiency.



Offline Velorn

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Re: Randomness on a shooting game?
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2016, 04:09:20 pm »
yes wich is why im trying to get the bullet travell to be raised u simply cant get hit on long range
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Offline Vengeful

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Re: Randomness on a shooting game?
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2016, 04:21:47 pm »
yes wich is why im trying to get the bullet travell to be raised u simply cant get hit on long range

With raised bullet travel the game would be a lot faster and in my opinion less enjoyable. Just compare it with Empire/Napoleon Total War. The most popular mod for it is a mod that makes units less acurate so the battles go longer.

Offline Sellsword

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Re: Randomness on a shooting game?
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2016, 04:29:01 pm »
Do you compare automatic rifles with muskets?

PS Right now the game is very fast.