Poll

are jedi/sith overpowered?

nerf the force users
9 (37.5%)
they are perfectly fine
15 (62.5%)

Total Members Voted: 24

Author Topic: JEDI/SITH NERF  (Read 5009 times)

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Offline Velorn

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JEDI/SITH NERF
« on: February 07, 2016, 09:11:18 pm »
i just went on a server with 40+ ppl and the enemy team got our butts rapped because they had more force users soo we got forced to play jedi.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2016, 09:14:38 pm by Velorn »
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Offline Ares

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Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2016, 09:13:37 pm »
****ing hell.

Let's say you're on native on a public server. You're losing because their cavalry is better than the ones in your team. Will you ****ing scream to Talesworld that they'd nerf cav ? No. Same here.

Jedi on this mod are op, yes. Maybe they were even less op in v0.36. But so what, not Dev fault your team can't get any decent jedi to carry your team.

Offline Velorn

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Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2016, 09:16:56 pm »
admit it the team with most force users wins and yes Cavalry is **** in native but there are dedicated ways to defeat them like pikes and spears however in bear force there is no way for the trooper to win unless the jedi is a complete noob he cant beat him in melee nor on range nor is he faster or has any advantage over the jedi like speed or whatever
« Last Edit: February 07, 2016, 09:20:38 pm by Velorn »
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Offline Velorn

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Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2016, 09:30:20 pm »
Quote
Jedi on this mod are op, yes. Maybe they were even less op in v0.36. But so what, not Dev fault your team can't get any decent jedi to carry your team.

you cant be serious about this... a mp game is supposed to be fun to ALL players regardles wich class they picked
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Offline Sellsword

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Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2016, 10:15:01 pm »
When I infantryman, I'm more afraid of infantry than two-headed.  :) Nobody says that the Jedi unbeatable. It just takes more time, effort and luck than necessary, regardless of the skill of the Jedi. Why the class for beginners would be the best?

Offline Gus

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Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2016, 11:03:27 pm »
What server did you play on, Velorn?

You believe it's better to make the Jedi/Sith classes less powerful rather than use the class limits?

Offline Sellsword

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Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2016, 11:04:28 pm »
I believe. Limit harm to both parties.

Offline Gus

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Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2016, 11:06:59 pm »
How would you go about "nerfing" them?

Offline Velorn

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Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2016, 11:26:58 pm »
marko said he might have found a way to bring back stunlock in melee this and a slight nerf on the defence against blasters should be fine
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Offline Aijnin

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Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2016, 02:25:07 am »
Velorn, did playing Jedi actually help you win more?

Offline Aijnin

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Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2016, 02:31:50 am »
admit it the team with most force users wins

Just today I was in a team of 75% sith and we were on a losing streak against a team of about 60% clones. And the top player on the Republic team was a clone, all the way through. I think skill has to do with some part of winning, not just the class.


Offline Vengeful

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Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2016, 09:41:31 am »
First of all I want to say I have not voted for any of those options since I don't think they are balanced, but also nerfing them is not the way to go.

I hope my experience in balancing from playing League of Legends for 4 years can help.

In League there are a certain class called melee carries, and they have been a horror to balance for Riot ever since they were released (Fiora, Master Yi, Tryndamere for example) They are people that are damage dealers and melees at the same time. Since they can not tank a lot of hits, they have a lot of mobility to help them get in and out of fights. They need to force single targets into a 1v1 for maximum effectiveness. The best tactic against them is to group up and focus them down (best with crowd controll)

In League the main weakness of Melee carries is their low health and range disadvantage.

In Bearforce 2 the weakness of Force users is... I can't think of any exploitable weakness.

You can probably see the similarity at this point. I would describe the Jedi as a melee carry. The problem in my eyes is that he is too good at everything. He is impossible to kill at range. He is hard to kill in melee (since that is his main point of fighting). The only way to overpower him is to have a lot more people and to shoot at him until his force power is depleted. Since the force power is only visible to the force user himself, this not only feels really pointless but also frustrating.

In my opinion all the Jedi needs is Counterplay. A weakness to exploit where good Force users can cover it with skill. The Force Users are not a beginner Class. They are an elite class played by people training them daily.

I really hope we can find a way to make the Force user gameplay enjoyable for both Force users themselves and Ranged players.

P.S. If anyone of you plays League, the Fiora rework is what im looking for here. Before the update she was a Champion not fun to play as/against. Since you either went 0/10 and were useless the whole game or 10/0 and destroyed everyone. Now its an awesome champ with counterplay and a high skill ceiling.

Offline Sellsword

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Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2016, 10:36:55 am »
marko said he might have found a way to bring back stunlock in melee this and a slight nerf on the defence against blasters should be fine

Half-measures will not help. Their passive abilities should be minimal.

Vengeful
The problem is that he almost does not get tired. Even against 10 shooters. Moreover, the suppression of fire  is simply dangerous, if he has Counter. It's funny to hear about the exploit when developers are constantly eliminate their weaknesses. Perhaps by accident, because listening the lovers of easy game for the Jedi.

Oh, tell me, how many hours you have to train to run around with the block and automatically reflect all the shots? This is a very simple class for beginners.

Aijnin
It happens, but rarely.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 10:53:14 am by Sellsword »

Offline Vengeful

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Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2016, 11:01:10 am »
The problem is that he almost does not get tired. Even against 10 shooters.

I agree, a change I would actually welcome:

Change the Force Defense/Blocking of shots, so a Jedi can block a set amount of shots (like 10) and then has to "recharge" for a set amount of seconds before he can block again. That would get a Force User to really think about where to jump in, but also means he only has a lower downtime in between actions.

The ranged users would have counterplay (getting 3-5 ppl to shoot at the Force user) but the Force user doesn't feel completely useless after using all of his "block" power, since he only needs that set amount of seconds before he can try again (if hes not dead because he chose a wrong moment)

It would change the gameplay of a Force user to windows of oppurtunities. I would like to hear a force users opinion on this change.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 11:03:05 am by Vengeful »

Offline Sellsword

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Re: JEDI/SITH NERF
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2016, 11:08:13 am »
Or just significantly increase the consumption of power so a Jedi could not attack head-on. By the way, I am against the fact that the easiest way to kill them is to use melee weapon. Still, the ordinary clone can not fence with the Sith. Perhaps we need a special Jedi killer.

Force users only want the limit.  :)